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Episode Overview
Reid Carr: Welcome back to the Marketing remix. I'm Reid Carr, CEO of Red Door Interactive. Today we're taking a wide angled look at the state of higher education marketing, an industry under increasing pressure to drive enrollment, prove impact, and adapt to rapidly changing student expectations, all while navigating complex institutional realities. From how prospective students discover and evaluate schools, to how institutions balance brand, performance, and long-term growth, higher ed marketing is evolving fast, and marketing teams are being asked to deliver greater impact amid evolving expectations and constraints.To unpack what's really changing, what's working, and where institutions need to evolve next, I'm joined by two leaders with deeply connected, but distinct perspectives. From the client side, we're excited to welcome Dave Gladson, Associate Vice President of Marketing at Point Loma Nazarene University. Dave has been leading PLNU's marketing evolution firsthand––balancing internal priorities, enrollment goals, and the shift toward more measurable digital first strategies.
And joining us from Red Door Interactive is Mallory Collins, director of Brand Strategy and Creative. Mallory has partnered with higher education institutions across the country to help them navigate enrollment pressure, evolving student behavior, and the challenge of aligning performance marketing with long-term brand building. She's also the former business manager on the PLNU account, giving both her category wide perspective and firsthand institutional experience. Together we'll explore what's shifting in higher ed marketing, what institutions are getting right, and where real opportunity lies ahead. Thanks for joining us.
Dave Gladson: Happy to be here.
Mallory Collins: Thanks for having me.
- What’s the most pressing shift in higher ed marketing today?
- Where do schools need the most support as they adapt?
- How is changing student behavior reshaping marketing and recruitment?
- Where are institutions getting the modern student right?
- What makes turning new ideas into action so challenging?
- How can higher ed teams prioritize for maximum impact?
- Which innovations are driving meaningful results?
- What advice would you give higher ed marketers to stay ahead?
- Final thoughts & key takeaways
Episode Transcript
WHAT’S THE MOST PRESSING SHIFT IN HIGHER ED MARKETING TODAY?
Reid Carr: Alright, well, let's start big picture. Higher ed marketing teams are under more pressure than ever leaner budgets, rising expectations, and increasing scrutiny around results. It can feel like everything is shifting at once. Now, Dave, from your perspective, what's the most pressing shift you are seeing in higher ed marketing today?Dave Gladson: I mean, I think there's two things I would point to. One is because we can measure everything, we're being asked to measure everything, and I think in that environment it becomes, you have to work really hard to show the value of brand marketing. A strategy that doesn't produce immediate results is still a really good strategy, but you have to really fight hard to show the value of that and to make sure that that stays in the budget that you don't sacrifice tomorrow for the sake of today. The other one is this, because of the changing student behavior, we have such a wide variety of students. I mean, on the traditional undergraduate side, you've got students with a five-year sales cycle who are starting to think about what their options are five years in advance when they enroll, and we're pairing those strategies up with what we need to do on the grad side with people who may be willing to start next week and very different student behavior. So having a partner very differently with different admissions teams all along the funnel. It's a lot of complex pieces to manage and we just have to get really organized about that.
WHERE DO SCHOOLS NEED THE MOST SUPPORT AS THEY ADAPT?
Reid Carr: Yeah. Well, Mallory, across institutions you work with, what shift feels the most urgent right now, and where do you see schools needing to have support as they adapt?Mallory Collins: Yeah, I think lots of shifts happening and lots of urgent problems. I don't envy Dave. He does a great job balancing it all, staying calm and cool and level headed. I kind of took a zoom out across all the different education institutions that I partner with and thought about. It was about 10 years ago, I started working with Dave and just others in the industry and kept hearing this cliff's coming, this enrollment dropoff is coming. And I think looking at since 2020, I looked it up, 40 universities have closed their doors. By 2035, so if you've lost track, some of us that's less than 10 years away, which is crazy, 10% of the pool of prospective students will just evaporate or shrink. We've known that because of population, lack of growth, just the size of the generation. But there's so many different factors, even financial pressures that have caused this.
And what it's creating is just increased pressure, increased competition. So in a landscape like that, you just challenge to be better. And I think the answer to that isn't what even I thought at first. It's really the value. What's your value and what's your brand, your name, image, and likeness. And to tie it into what Dave's saying, while that value can be hard to show of, we need to invest now in brand to deliver in the long term, I think that it is really what's moving the needle and what students are resonating with because they want to see the value, they want to see the payoff. And I think being bold enough to say, we're not for everyone. This is the group that we do a really good job for, and this is our position. I even think of a comical example is University of Wyoming is like, want to create more cowboys for the world, or the world deserves more cowboys, whatever that is, which take that as you want, I don't know. But they're taking a position and they're saying, this is our identity. This is who we are and this is what we believe in, and hopefully it's innovation and driving jobs and this type of person. So I would say it's shrinking pool, more competition, have to focus on value more than ever––which is a change for the industry.
Reid Carr: Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of folks just, that was an assumption before, and now you have to get down to brass taxes. What's it worth?
Dave Gladson: I would even add to that and say we did go through a whole decade where we could kind of take a 'if you built it, they will come' approach. And now not just Point Loma, but a lot of universities are needing to get really intentional about getting marketing all the way into the beginning of the conversation. Not just how we're marketing the program, but how are we designing the program, designing a program that is easy to market, and not every university has marketing in that place. I think we've done a really good job of getting into our strategic enrollment planning process and speaking into those conversations early. That's a step that a lot of universities need to take for sure.
Mallory Collins: Absolutely.
Reid Carr: Yeah. Well, and it speaks a little bit to thinking from as consumers. I mean, the shift that stands out is how prospective students behave more like savvy consumers than ever before. So the researching earlier, comparing more options, expecting marketing that speaks directly to their goals, their values and outcomes.
HOW IS CHANGING STUDENT BEHAVIOR RESHAPING MARKETING AND RECRUITMENT?
Reid Carr: Dave, how has this change in student behavior influenced how your team approaches marketing and recruitment at PLNU?Dave Gladson: Yeah, I think the biggest shift is kind of how it's pushing us to partner more deeply with enrollment because it's not just getting somebody interested in the program, but it's working with the counselors all the way through, all the way through the funnel, all the way through the sales cycle of what questions are they asking. So many students who don't want to talk to a person until they've kind of already made up their mind, we can't count on the traditional model of a student reaching out six months in advance and having six conversations before they make up their mind. They really want to be pretty sure they know what their options are before they reach out and talk to a person. So using that market intelligence from talking to the counselors all along the way and making sure that we're able to then bring that into the top of the funnel for all the students we haven't talked to yet.
WHERE ARE INSTITUTIONS GETTING THE MODERN STUDENT RIGHT?
Reid Carr: Yeah. Well, Mallory, when you look across institutions where schools are still recalibrating their understanding of the modern student, where are they starting to get it right?Mallory Collins: Yeah. I think back when I went to college, and I remember I went to a prep school and it was like, these are the colleges you dream about and you aspire about and you're applying to eight because you're just not sure you're going to get in. And I think now the value of even college is being questioned, I mean, I really believe in it. I believe it's such a time to become as a whole person, but I think that the universities and the institutions that are getting it right are recognizing that the needs of students are so different today. The workforce has changed. I looked at something and it said, only one third of employers feel like that college graduate that started at their company was ready. And so to me, that demands this need to look at the curriculum as Dave was saying, how do we use marketing, which fundamentally is the perspective of the consumer who you're creating this thing for, and use that to inform what you offer and how you promote that.
So I think there's so many more certifications, incorporation of internships of jobs into requirements in curriculum. And even I think on a fundamental level, what are those outcomes that are going to be delivered through even their required foundational curriculum? What skills are they building? So I think more of that orientation around skills and then bringing that out and saying, this is that ROI. And it doesn't always have to be just a hard salary numbers. It could be the stories, the whole person transformation. And I think Dave, that's a lot of what we've worked on together, and I think it's been really successful of looking at, yeah, what's that niche of success we can offer and how do we develop people as a whole person so that they're so prepared, not just for a job but to go out into the world.
Reid Carr: Right. Yeah. Well, it's interesting you talk a little bit about program changes and adapting consumer behavior now adaptation and the reality of how fast things can happen at a university. I mean, the differences between what changes you want to make and the internal reality of execution. I mean, when marketing teams know what needs to change, higher ed doesn't always move all that quickly. I mean, they're known for that. Their pace, long approval cycles, legacy systems, competing priorities can make some of that agility difficult.
WHAT MAKES TURNING NEW IDEAS INTO ACTION SO CHALLENGING?
Reid Carr: Dave, I mean, what do you think is the best, biggest challenge in turning some of those new ideas and strategies into action within PLNU or even other universities?Dave Gladson: Yeah, I mean, many of our success stories were multi-year long journeys. We did two or three years of internal work and preparation before we got the budget to do the initial partnership with Red Door. We were laying that groundwork for multiple years in advance and making the case multiple times in different ways and showing we were able to make this incremental lift with this, here's how much more we can do if you can trust us to take that next step. So I think playing the long game for sure is a big part of it is you're accepting you're not going to get that quick approval. That's highly unlikely. You need to be thinking two, three years out. That kind of long-term planning is hard, but I think in higher ed is critical.
HOW CAN HIGHER ED TEAMS PRIORITIZE FOR MAXIMUM IMPACT?
Reid Carr: Yeah. Well, I mean, in thinking about that in terms of planning, part of planning is prioritization. Mallory, you've seen this across multiple institutions. How do you help higher ed teams prioritize what drives the most impact while navigating these institutional realities?Mallory Collins: Yeah, I think I mean you know this Reid
Reid Carr: Hahaha that I do,
Mallory Collins: We focus on, well, I was going to say we focus on the idea of Greater Together at Red Door, but you know that too.
Reid Carr: Yeah.
Mallory Collins: It's all about alignment. And I think that alignment is about helping clients prioritize.
Everyone has a limited budget, especially when you look at this industry and this strain on it. Often the focus is enrollment generating initiatives. So we've done things with PLNU to help prioritize.
So one thing that comes to mind, it actually was more so even on the academic planning level, was this portfolio analysis that we created and we mapped all the different programs and offerings and said, how are we measuring the success and just the interest of these programs? How do we make decisions about what to offer students, what to deprioritize, what to promote, and how much marketing budget to put behind it? And so I think that's the idea as if you believe marketing is that perspective of the end consumer, that perspective student. You can inform all the way from the front what you're offering. And I think that's a really cool thing. So that's been a huge prioritization initiative is all the way from planning programs to promoting them and then also just education.
So a big part of what we've worked on together is how do we get enrollment to understand, how do we get professors in academia to understand what we're doing and get on the same page? Because once they understand the end goal that we have the same common end goal, it gets that buy-in. So I think that's been huge too, is just the communication and helping make sure that the priorities internally at your organization are aligned as much as possible with what we need to do.
Dave Gladson: I would underline that for sure. I mean, it was probably three years ago now that we built that first analysis for the graduate programs. And I mean so many, the analysis that come out of the higher ed specific firms are all based on backwards looking data. And you guys helped us build something that's based on forward looking market data. And now this year we came back and we did a similar project, but for traditional undergraduate side. And I think also it's building that united front when marketing and enrollment can come into the room together and tell the same story and be backing each other up.
The failure point with teams often is marketing enrollments start blaming each other for the gaps. And if we can be in the room together telling the same story, we can get that buy-in from leadership. We can convince academics to potentially make a shift. So that united front is huge. And I mean even having you guys come in and present, it helps.
Mallory Collins: Yeah. Yeah, we love that. Get different questions from different professors. You never know.
Reid Carr: Yeah. Finally, they're the ones asking the questions here.
Mallory Collins: I know. Hold on hahaha.
Reid Carr: And we always talk about alignment is everything, and I think alignment illuminates a lot too. And in this case, the other part I want to talk about is innovation.
WHICH INNOVATIONS ARE DRIVING MEANINGFUL RESULTS?
Reid Carr: I mean, there's no shortage of buzz around innovation in higher ed. You've got AI automation, personalization, but not all of that can drive meaningful results. And you have alignment. You can start to say, okay, well, we're all on the same page and we get really creative with the ideas that we have, but again, you have to deliver the results and getting the right KPIs in alignment. So Dave, are there any areas you've experimented recently you're excited about or lessons you've learned along the way toward that innovation pathway?Dave Gladson: Yeah, I think there's two examples I could share. I don't know how innovative it is, but we're currently rolling out our first AI employee that's being shared between the marketing enrollment team. So really just trying to stay up with the current technology and how can we move from, we've been doing segmentation and segmenting our email marketing for a long time, but how do we start to get that from just raw segmentation to something that's approaching one-to-one communication? I think the tools still have a long ways to go, but it's a big step forward to being much closer to one-to-one and making sure that we're really clear on the goal that AI employee's job is not to replace the counselors. It's actually to facilitate the connection to get the students who are ready to talk to a counselor to get them in contact faster and easier. So it's actually reducing friction to make those human contact points not in any way trying to replace the contact points.
Reid Carr: Yeah. Well, that's interesting. I think an AI employee I think can be a little threatening, I'm sure on some level, but as you say, it seems to be a partner in this case.
Dave Gladson: It's a similar conversation internal with the team. We've been really intentional this year about getting everyone on the team using AI in their job in an intentional way, and it's different for every employee. We're not expecting every person to use it the same way, but just making sure that what are the use cases for you that it makes sense. And I mean, just in the last six months, I think our ability to market research has grown exponentially. We figured out the right way to use an AI tool to speed up the initial process and then bring the person in at the right point in the conversation to take all that and then do the synthesis in a meaningful way. So again, not replacing the human, but greatly amplifying what they can do.
Reid Carr: Yeah. So Mallory, talking about then innovations that earn buy-in and deliver impact, which ones are you seeing that generate interest, but yet maybe not yet delivering results? Maybe it will?
Mallory Collins: Yeah. I mean, I think I'm always going to steer more brand creative hahaha and I'm going to pick on Dave! But I think what we've built together with this campaign Founded on Finding You, I think it's really innovative in that puts students at the center of the story of why PLNU is who it is and takes a clear position too of this is what we're not. So I think it's innovative in the sense of it's really bringing that story of transformation to the forefront. It's taking a bold claim, and I think really serving and showing how PLNU creates these really profound students that are whole people. So to me that's innovative, and I know efforts like that take a while to take traction. I know we've had a lot of great wins over the years of bringing it to market and excited for this next evolution that we just launched.
WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE HIGHER ED MARKETERS TO STAY AHEAD?
Reid Carr: Well, and getting some of our listeners to think in the practical terms. I mean, so closing us out here, give us one piece of advice to higher ed marketers who want to stay ahead of change right now. What would it be?Mallory Collins: Oh, one piece?
Reid Carr: Yeah, just one piece.
Mallory Collins: We've talked about all these big things and we have to pare it down to just one.
Reid Carr: I know that's always a tough question, right? People always say, what's that one thing? But I mean, we talk about prioritization, right? So we're not saying there's not other things, but maybe the most important thing?
Mallory Collins: You're asking me to prioritize?
Reid Carr: Exactly.
Mallory Collins: I would say for me, I still believe there is such value in higher education. It transforms people to really be ready to go out into the world. I know it's not for everyone, but I think universities have a lot of resources. So tap into those resources, alumni, local community partnerships, local companies, and use that to bolster up the community. I'd say that's my one piece of advice to get stronger in this increasingly pressure cooker financial environment. Use what you've got and exhaust all of those options first. So I think there's a lot of cool programs, student offerings that could come out of doing that.
Dave Gladson: I would maybe build on that and say, never forget the value of brand marketing and whether it's..
Mallory Collins: I did not pay Dave to say that. Hahaha!
Dave Gladson: I mean, whether it's that high level brand or whether it's the student stories or just that's the missing piece for a lot of students is showing the value proposition in a way that's beyond just the dollars and cents, but personally meaningful. And I think just, yeah, you got to do the performance marketing too, but never sacrifice the brand marketing.
Reid Carr: Yeah. Well, I mean, they got to know what you're about. And I think we talked early on at the beginning of this part about understanding that student, understanding the consumer now as they're being more thoughtful about how they make these truly major financial choices for them. And so it's got to be oriented around value, but again, from a brand standpoint, why buy you? And that's, you spend all that time trying to do that, and it's always so fun to watch PLNU do that and work with you guys to make that happen because it's been a powerful relationship for a long time. So I appreciate you joining us here, Dave and Mal, thanks for coming in.
Mallory Collins: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Dave: Thank you.